AFKs, Shapeshifters, Custom Appearances - Rule

[Beard]

This is a blanket rule to enforce roleplay, and ensure a consistent experience for all players.

It is to be assumed that the resources and standing forces available to a city are overwhelming to even the strongest built character you have in your arsenal. One person could not wage a war and win against a metropolitan city. Challenging them would most certain result in your death. The exception to this thinking is a DM event that would allow for player(s) to control a city temporarily. If you wish to challenge NPCs to a duel because you think you're too badass, a swift DM kill is likely to follow.

You MUST ROLEPLAY your character, such that you are disguised, concealed, or shapeshifted in a safe form as to avoid DM action.

If you play a custom appearance such as undead, construct, or any creature/race that could be viewed as hostile, a DM may take action. Action from a DM may include but is not limited to DM Killing, spawning guards/NPCs to kill or drive you out of the area, or approaching you with an NPC demanding your removal, etc.

If you play a shapeshifter, the same applies to you as custom appearances would, if you're in shifted form of a creature/race that could be viewed as hostile, DM action may be taken.

If you are AFK and an event is running or one of the above applies to you, DM action may be taken.

All of these are subject to DM discretion and fall under the basic rule, THE DM IS ALWAYS RIGHT!

If you find that there is an abuse, you send a message to Raradra, who heads up the staff here, and she will deal with it directly, and any necessary correction, or discipline of the staff is under her domain. DO NOT argue with DMs ingame, you have two choices in game, leave (logout) or adhere to their ruling and complain/report later.

[Xillie]

Im not getting this sorry ?

So it's illegal to kill NPCs unless you are cloacked/concealed? "To avoid DM interaction"...? What does that mean?
Afaik, essential npcs should never be killed.

If killing NPCs is allowed, it should be allowed to just walk up to galdor in your undies, devcrit him, walk away and drink a beer.

People randomly killing npcs usually are frustrating the server over a personal frustration; griefing.
I still hope griefers get banned.

Does this (which Im not getting) apply only to shifters?

DM action can always be taken whatever the situation right?
When I'm taking a dung, 10 slaads crawl from the ground for instance.
Especially when killing npc's, what is wrong with DM spawning stuff to

DMkilled as punishment for being afk?

This post is too vague for someone like me sorry.
It sounds like a reaction to someone ingame making objections to DM involvement after.....killing NPCs?

Is it for instance, that if some Abizyne wizard wants to get rid of the brosna crusaders by burning down hebdezi, he or she assumes a DM has no right to stop him/her?

Any way to clear up rules? like : Killing vital quests npcs, killing npcs for drops are just total illegal?

greets,

Xillie

[Lliira]

The original rules still apply, Xillie. Do not kill NPCs, if it can be avoided.

This particular rule is for players who choose to enter towns shaped as undead or other normally hostile creatures. Or stand near a town, where guards would surely chase you away or attack you. This is for players who have levels of shifter, or have special skins. Such as goblins. ;..;

This is a new roleplay rule, because due to factions, you might think it is safe to walk through Benzor, in Lich form. It is no longer safe for you to do this.

[Beard]

Xillie this is about players, not NPCs. If you're an undead creature (shapeshifter or custom appearance roleplaying as an Undead creature) and you waltz into a city of humans/elves/dwarves etc expect to be shunned or attacked. It's a simple notion, you'd kill a zombie if it came into your city, why would a player be any different? Just the same as Drow wandering in Benzor who haven't done the wings quest, it's hostile to them.

[raradra]

Note that this is NOT advocating the above occurring. In a RP situation, 99% of PC's would recognize that the city guard would completely overwhelm them and have more sense than to attempt to provoke them. This is merely a warning that it's preferred players role play and therefore would know better than to be shifted in or near town.

[Xillie]

So.......logics

I didn't get it because its so logical to me,.....I think,....... if I get it now

Thanks for the reiteration though.

...
....

Still, In principle, a DM is allowed to "meddle, influence" anything, anytime, anywhere right?
Leaving a right to players to ask for negotiations/ask to be left alone/leave game, right?

If I understand this now, there still sounds some redundancy in it to me.
It sounds like: "In general, DMs have not the right to start interfering with your play, unless you are killing NPCs (as a shifter), then you should be prepared to get confronted with DM involvement."

I imagine inspiration from DMing doesnt come that natural and easy, with all usual ingame technics frustrations, player expectations from DMs ("rezetz plz!!"), general disillusions, etc,.....thats why I think the core rule should be as I have always took it:

A DM may start meddling in anything, anytime, anywhere, no holds barred. After that, players can ask for a streamlining of the events for instance, or negotiate, or forfeit. A DM should feel as least possible objections and blockades when deciding whether to "meddle" or not,.......I think.

Like: "A DM can never do anything wrong" sounds inspiring for players to give DM a break, it should be more important than "A DM is always right", which sounds as a pathetic excuse for weakness and failure, iow, that rule intrinsically admits the DM is actually WRONG. ("I know I am wrong, but I do not want to admit or discuss, so I'm playing my authority card against you right now", leaving the player with a diminished respect of DM) I've always seen the formulation of that rule as the biggest weakness of the great Gygax. It may be practically usefull, but enforcing it is always a defeat from the DM side.

I don't think any player is expecting true d*ckish behaviour of DMs nowadays, should that happen, people can report to Raradra I imagine.

[Beard]

No, you're still somewhat off in understanding.

Killing certain NPCs is against the rules, but that is irrelavent to what I'm speaking of.

This is a roleplay server, the expectation when you play here is to do just that. If you wish to be a powergamer, we allow that aswell but still expect roleplay at times. If you're going to powergame an epic build that can stomp anything in the server and feel godlike and park outside a city, you're going to get DM involvment. When a DM gets involved saying the city will attack and defend against you, and your response is "Bring it on" the DM will have the right to just nuke you, or spawn a thousand Elder Wyrms made invulnerable, etc. Essentially DMs discretion.

The single point of this rule is to expect consequences for bad decisions in your Roleplay or for something you didn't think of like wandering into Benzor as a lich.

The secondary point of this rule is that it's clearly stated, so when you get upset by a DM kill, or spawns of unfair creatures killing you, etc it's just simply too bad, you should have thought things through first before puffing up to a DM or blatantly running through a metropolis as a hostile creature.

Your logic in regards to "The DM is always right." is somewhat correct, it is self defeating, but without it, there is alot of room for argument from people that can make a simple situation with a simple solution into a massive cluster bomb of bad feelings, disrespect and potentially bans/kicks/rage quits.

It's an imperfect rule, but it's the best available. DMs were promoted for a reason and have to deal with situations that cannot be solved by players or affect change through various means to correct improper behavior of a player that fails to recognize their mistake themselves. If you truly were roleplaying your character, you would think as your character would in that situation, if I were a lich, I am socially shunned and isolated from most civilized groups, I'm an undead. I would not wander through a heavily populated area and expect a warm welcome, it's just ludicrous to think that I'd be accepted anywhere other than with other undead, and even then it's a toss up whether they'd be hostile to me or not.

The final point to this rule is to establish a clear understanding that the DM is always right ingame, after the fact, here on the forums by contacting Raradra, is where you make complaint, and corrective measures are taken to deal with the situation. When a DM is running an event or dealing with something in game, and you argue, you're taking away from other players experience, you're no longer involved in the roleplay (or focused on it) or holding up a DM from continuing the event, breaking immersion and fun for others. Keep your complaints to yourself, play, leave, quit the event w/e you have to do, but do not argue with the DM, go to the forums, explain the situation and how you'd prefer it were handled in future.

Lastly, to your point of it being redundant, this is correct in some ways, but no where in the rules does it say DM kill is expected as a response. When the level cap was 20, there were plenty of monsters at a DMs disposal that were roleplay relevant to handle a situation with a player, resulting in their retreat from the area as intended, or death as intended. Now, with LVL 40s with Dev Crit running about, it's almost impossible to throw creatures at them that can even remotely hit their AC, do significant damage even in great numbers without A) Causing Lag, B) Taking Forever to reach a desired result. So, to clearly state expectations of the DMs for players to roleplay, and clearly stating a streamlined response of "The city overwhelms you with it's forces." *Clicks DM Kill*

[artemishadow]

No, you're still somewhat off in understanding.

Killing certain NPCs is against the rules, but that is irrelavent to what I'm speaking of.

This is a roleplay server, the expectation when you play here is to do just that. If you wish to be a powergamer, we allow that aswell but still expect roleplay at times. If you're going to powergame an epic build that can stomp anything in the server and feel godlike and park outside a city, you're going to get DM involvment. When a DM gets involved saying the city will attack and defend against you, and your response is "Bring it on" the DM will have the right to just nuke you, or spawn a thousand Elder Wyrms made invulnerable, etc. Essentially DMs discretion.

The single point of this rule is to expect consequences for bad decisions in your Roleplay or for something you didn't think of like wandering into Benzor as a lich.

The secondary point of this rule is that it's clearly stated, so when you get upset by a DM kill, or spawns of unfair creatures killing you, etc it's just simply too bad, you should have thought things through first before puffing up to a DM or blatantly running through a metropolis as a hostile creature.

Your logic in regards to "The DM is always right." is somewhat correct, it is self defeating, but without it, there is alot of room for argument from people that can make a simple situation with a simple solution into a massive cluster bomb of bad feelings, disrespect and potentially bans/kicks/rage quits.

It's an imperfect rule, but it's the best available. DMs were promoted for a reason and have to deal with situations that cannot be solved by players or affect change through various means to correct improper behavior of a player that fails to recognize their mistake themselves. If you truly were roleplaying your character, you would think as your character would in that situation, if I were a lich, I am socially shunned and isolated from most civilized groups, I'm an undead. I would not wander through a heavily populated area and expect a warm welcome, it's just ludicrous to think that I'd be accepted anywhere other than with other undead, and even then it's a toss up whether they'd be hostile to me or not.

The final point to this rule is to establish a clear understanding that the DM is always right ingame, after the fact, here on the forums by contacting Raradra, is where you make complaint, and corrective measures are taken to deal with the situation. When a DM is running an event or dealing with something in game, and you argue, you're taking away from other players experience, you're no longer involved in the roleplay (or focused on it) or holding up a DM from continuing the event, breaking immersion and fun for others. Keep your complaints to yourself, play, leave, quit the event w/e you have to do, but do not argue with the DM, go to the forums, explain the situation and how you'd prefer it were handled in future.

Lastly, to your point of it being redundant, this is correct in some ways, but no where in the rules does it say DM kill is expected as a response. When the level cap was 20, there were plenty of monsters at a DMs disposal that were roleplay relevant to handle a situation with a player, resulting in their retreat from the area as intended, or death as intended. Now, with LVL 40s with Dev Crit running about, it's almost impossible to throw creatures at them that can even remotely hit their AC, do significant damage even in great numbers without A) Causing Lag, B) Taking Forever to reach a desired result. So, to clearly state expectations of the DMs for players to roleplay, and clearly stating a streamlined response of "The city overwhelms you with it's forces." *Clicks DM Kill*

Can't help but think that this thread was created because of my IG rants as a very particular shifter >.>

[Xillie]

Of course, Im a nosey poker.

Ingame ranting is wrong.....there's no oversight, often there is adrenalin from the game, no-one can join your "discussion" (for backup) and it works just way better if you complain on the fora. In fact, I love complaining on the fora.
I know how easy it happens, had a slight exaggerated response to some DM shouts ingame myself today.

If you throw the question clearly on the fora we can all discuss it.

Like: Is there really no other solution to "overwhelm" certain built players than using the kill button?

Now it has become a rule, but I think we could just debate the issue, with enough or not enough technical arguments I suppose.
I actually think its a very interesting discussion. Maybe this rule can still be challenged with arguments. Maybe not. I cannot though, not enough xp

So if noone can, I guess we can agree the rule is right.

peace,

Xillie

[Beard]

Well, if it's roleplayed to repell the character regardless of the use of NPCs then noone dies, if a player decides to puff up and kill whatever is thrown at them instead of following the assumption they can't fight a whole city by themselves, streamlining the process by DM killing is just easier. Nordock is far too full to impliment balances, or add monsters/NPCs, and there's nothing in there that can't be spanked with Dev crit among other power builds that just can't be brought to care. That said, Elderwyrm I can't just drop in the middle of benzor to deal with one player, it's a pain. Therefore, DM kill, or roleplay your way out of the situation/run from the city.

in short, roleplay. If not, you might get nuked if the circumstances allow for it. (AFK as a spider in benzor, you'll get nuked)