Richterm's Retreat Nordock

I sitll think that, while you have a good point Xillie, ILR was introduced to epic in the past because it introduced levels and gear beyond the traditional 20. Things like RoBD were extremely rare to see on classic, because despite there being a pair every reset running PoR even with a group of max lvls was very difficult, and this when xp was still much lower than it is, meaning getting to lvl 20 was a much harder thing to accomplish anyway. Being able to not only achieve but exceed lvl 20 now much more quickly means that finding and obtaining items like that is much easier and can be done with enough frequency that people are more inclined to move them to their low lvls rather than hold on to them. The fact is the awesome gear you find is no longer coveted, a way to balance that out would be to restrict usage of these items. Like I said, I think that's why it was done on the original epic server and I think it worked well that way. This, while perhaps not considered to be, is essentially the epic server sans ILR. If this sort of thing is preventing DM's from being inclined to interact with the players, as has been suggested by some, then I would gladly forgo using certain items before a certain level for more DM involvement and a more balanced game. In response to the notion that this would be "changing the rules halfway in the game", I disagree. There have always been times when we as a player base have come together to rethink something that some, if not all, of us needs to be addressed. Given the current size of not only the people ig but on the forums and on the development/DM/admin side of things too makes it perhaps the best time to be able to do such a thing. To be fair, getting rid of ILR was in the same sense changing the rules halfway through, from what I understand it was in response to trying to merge the classic and epic servers so that the player base would be more concentrated. It was an experiment and this seems to be the discussion on where this experiment has taken us and what we as a group would like to do from here. But, as I've said " http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c "-just substiute "your" with "my"

Xillie wrote: Im sorry to say that I would consider it a case of "changing the rules halfway the game", too bad this wasnt definitely decided from the get-go where it appeared it was. I also think that lowlevel characters can always be challenged on their weak points even if they have haste, AC and damaging weapons.
Xillie

When they first put this server up, and ILR was discussed, you complained so much that they left it off. And as far back as I can check on the Facebook page, you were the only one who objected to it.

Now we are asking all of those who play here, to vote.

Xillie wrote:Hiya, just came by ingame and heard about this poll.
I voted against it, assuming there is not going to be a (semi) vaultwipe accompanied.

We discussed a total wipe and decided that this might be the better option

Xillie wrote: Im wondering how it would help the server, if I understand it correctly it is because DM(s) find the one or two people soloing on the server at low level having too valuable gear to deserve or otherwise make possible an interaction with that DM.

Unfortunately we didn't do this from the start because we were sure it would only be 2 or 3 people but since it's become several more it's becoming an issue for DM's wanting to do things for players.

Xillie wrote: I would suggest perhaps considering both running a ILR and nonILR server which would show that an idea like this can break up players much faster than bringing them together.

greets and see you ingame,

We started out with 2 servers. Our total playerbase is less than 20 people so you can see how this might suck for people wanting to party. That's why we consolidated to begin with.

welcome back btw

Lliira wrote:
When they first put this server up, and ILR was discussed, you complained so much that they left it off. And as far back as I can check on the Facebook page, you were the only one who objected to it.

Now we are asking all of those who play here, to vote.

Now we are asking all of those who play here, to vote.

You talking about me?....xcuse me do I know you?

Amongst the top 5 of most divisive issues this was the number one, remember everyone?

This "ressurection" started as a merger between classic and epic concerning rules, it was said the idea was to cater to all playing styles a bit; I got to appreciate it (can you imagine, me!) now it is clear epic is winning after all if you want. Maybe I missed some announcement where the "ressurection" has become a clear epic server to a specific taste.

I want to make my final suggestion serious; one server that keeps running on the rules this project started with and one darwinian server where playing styles can battle it out in polls, winner takes it all, loser dies. Don't get me wrong, Im still a defender of democracy, I think losing players is no longer something that doesn't have to be considered.

Many people here still express their ideas in terms of "nordock was supposed to be this or that".
The idea that people from facebook that dont play should be allowed to use this forum as their opiniontoilet is so groce. We should stop embarassing ourselves by teaching eachother that my "My Nordock Memory" experience is more real than your "My Nordock Memory" experience.
Trust me, my Grand Vision of How Nordock Was Meant To Be By The Elder Nordockians of Great Wisdom is completely different than yours and I played here longer than you blabla, but I no longer bother anyone with it. We all have this weird egocentric fallacy, lets grow up a bit even more.

Admit the problem was to allow people to import their old characters, now the economy is frigged, you NEVER heard me complain about it, its not a grave mistake, I would have warned if asked, I was very happy with there being something in the first place, but now keep your stinking pathetic ILR patch to fix your own dumb faults away from my "My Nordock Memory" experience please. Okay I stole that expression, I forgot who put it this way years ago but whoever it was, the wisdom still counts if I may. So put it more nicely: some cute, very normal, beginners mistakes were made in the early days, things havent gone well enough to put on ILR now and claim it is a well thought through decision this time. Ok, that wasnt so nice either haha but most important is keep your filthy pathetic "My Nordock Memory" experiece as far away as possible from mine, PLEASE!

Xillie, that's enough.

There is no need to be rude to anyone here. Keep your posts constructive instead of abusive.

Don't let your conscience prevent you from reading the points I'm trying to make.


btw. Looks like this poll is gonna be an epic slaughter!

Xillie wrote: btw. Looks like this poll is gonna be an epic slaughter!

That depends on who actually voted. Anyone not actually playing will have their vote ignored.

May I ask here whether the introduction of trainingcosts was decided after polling as well? I cannot seem to find anything about it.

Training costs shouldn't kick in until level 21. If they do, please post to the bug forum.

Ugh, I've tried writing a response like 3 times now but my mind is too jumbled to come up with anything half way sensible, but that's what I get for pulling an all nighter I suppose. Suffice to say, I don't think anyone meant to insinuate that their opinions were more valid than anyone elses. This is an opinion poll and everything each of us says is just that, our own opinion-something no one else should take exception to. I agree, I think we *should* all grow up and discuss this like adults. So if at any point in my referencing past playing experience I came off in a manner other than to convey my personal experiences to this point and how thye've led me to my own conclusion then I apologize. I certainly respect the validity of all of your opinions and welcome any discourse your sharing them may bring.

So, the way I see it is this. Xillie, you mentioned that this is meant to be a fix for some dumb mistake that has broken the economy. While I agree the economy may be broken I'm not quite sure it has everything to do with importing characters from LK's former server. While that may have helped to spark some problems initially, as I've pointed out I don't believe that nordock with epic lvl zones and gear was built to be balanced without ilr in place. That opinion doesn't come from some belief that that's how it was in the first place, and therefore how it should be, but a result of having experienced that and then giving this a shot to see what happens and then coming to my own conclusion based on past and present experience. If this had worked out better than I would have been fine with it. But look at me, I'm pretending to be an economist xD

The sentiment that nothing should be done because it was a stupid mistake but was made so now we have to live with it is one I can't quite wrap my head around. In that reasoning what we would have is a static server with no room for growth..

Anyway.. whatever choice is made by the group I will stand by, I've said way more than my fair share so I'll leave it at that.