I know that the usual answer to the age long discussion fighter visa wizard is that a wizard can solo the whole mod while a fighter can´t.
So, I have tried, and tried, and tried to grow a wizard, but it is so impossible to survive. Especially since I try in Revenge, but I think its' the same in Diff. I have had this discussion once before, ( viewtopic.php?f=2&t=426&p=3256 ) but it is so impossible. Is it supposed to be this hard?
1: The summons. The description says 24 hours but I think the last rounds/level. the disappear awful fast anyway. Being armed with a dagger with no summon by my side and no armor is bad when I meet goblins with magic missiles in the river valley. The summons are nerfed down too, making them worse than the original game. In NADoH I managed to survive through several levels using Shelgarn's persistent blade, but magic missiles from goblins and acid arrows from the orcs kills it instantly.
2: The familiar. In Revenge, I die when the familiar die so I can eventually use it as spy, but that's it.
3: Brock, the only chance to gain levels. But he cost a lot to hire and has max level 7. Still, without him everything had been an awful lot harder. But when he dies, which he do a lot, I have to wait for reset to hire a new one and Revenge resets seldom.
4: Spells. When solo, I can use up all spells to buff up Brock, or use invisibility and attack like a duergar cleric. Problem there is that if I don't kill all enemies in a group and don't have Brock with me, I don't have the strength to finish them off alone.
5; Resting pause. Its prolonged in Revenge and Difficult, making me crafting with no spells left half the time I could have been hunting, just to pass time.
In all, I have a level 6 wizard in Revenge, and of all characters I've ever had in all servers, she is the one that has died most often. I created her 2007 and even though I don't play that often she hardly gain levels at all. Since she's of so low level, I don't pay for balm so she loose a lot when she's resurrected. At level 6, she barely survives in the River Valley, but she get nearly no XP there now so I have to find new hunting ground where I can survive as a solo wiz to gain levels, but where?
To get around this, I resort to making "Spell Sword" - ish characters. That creates a character that is bad as a wizard and bad as a fighter, but actually has a better chance to survive than a pure wizard, having a level 12 fighter/wizard/PM in Revenge by now.
Clearly, I do something wrong with my pure wiz. But what?
//Maria
How to survive as a wiz in Nordock?
Re: How to survive as a wiz in Nordock?
Sounds to me like it's quite an accomplishment you've grown a wizard6 on revenge.
What would you say about growing a wizard on classic/epic?
If you think that's much easier and doable, I think your answer is somewhere in the differences between servers.
The issues you mention appear to point out those differences to me.
Since you speak about soloing, I suspect the most regular answer might be that soloing in diff or revenge is not so much "supposed to be" possible and therefore....yes, it would supposed to be that hard. Sounds to me actually that even true permadeath could justifiably exist there.
Do you find soloing on classic/epic too easy with a wizard?
Cheers,
Xillie
What would you say about growing a wizard on classic/epic?
If you think that's much easier and doable, I think your answer is somewhere in the differences between servers.
The issues you mention appear to point out those differences to me.
Since you speak about soloing, I suspect the most regular answer might be that soloing in diff or revenge is not so much "supposed to be" possible and therefore....yes, it would supposed to be that hard. Sounds to me actually that even true permadeath could justifiably exist there.
Do you find soloing on classic/epic too easy with a wizard?
Cheers,
Xillie
Re: How to survive as a wiz in Nordock?
I've got (pure) wizards on both Revenge and Difficult. In general, it is much harder to level on these servers than Classic or Epic, not just because of the obvious hardcore settings of those modules and xp earn rate differences, but also there are fewer people playing on Revenge and Difficult to party up with which makes survivability more likely (unless you happen to team up with a player with the tactics of Brock - i.e. one that runs into a horde of monsters to stir them up, then runs back towards you so you can share in the pain/death).
So yeah, you aren't doing anything wrong necessarily, those mods are just really challenging.
I believe you can use your familiar on Difficult, but it's not really an option on Revenge because of the xp penalty on the familiar's death (talk about hardcore).
Considering multi-classing, pale master is not a bad way to go from the AC and immunities standpoint, but I find it takes longer that way because you don't get access to as many spells early on, unless you can find them to add to the book or purchase, or trade with other players. And even in the event you can fill out your spell book, your DCs and durations are that much shorter as a result which make the early levels even tougher if your plan is to attack with spells.
When playing a wizard, it is a very good idea to have decent constitution to make up for your lack of hitpoints in general. It's also good as this aids concentration. I think my wizard on Revenge has a 16 base constitution (can't check right now as it's offline), and the two I have on Difficult have 14 base (one's a surface, one's a drow).
Things tend to get better once you can cast things like improved invis and stoneskin which help for the increased damage of monsters on these mods. You are almost there at lvl 6.
I already mentioned this in the other topic you linked, but I think the defensive approach is easier/better on these servers. I never (or rarely) cast spells early on that are going to give away my invisibility. I like to take advantage of the scribe scroll feat for things like flame weapons and GMW, both of which come out reasonably high level for limited cost, which I can then use on good ole' Brock. I almost never venture out to hunt before level 4 (which I get to by running quests for Argyle). I try and do all the basic quests after that for a little extra xp.
At level six, you are looking at first, 2nd, and third level spells at best.
The set of Summon Creature spells are all modified to be more like the player's handbook - this is true for all the various Richterm's Retreat mod flavors. So the default nwn spell description does not at all match, they do not last 24hrs nor the does the creature appear as described (i.e. you don't get the badger automatically for Summon Creature I, etc.). If you do try using Summon Creature, make sure to get a book of summons so you can set what you want to get (can also see your options). You can get such a book at Malk's or Werdna's, but the cheapest is the newb store so I try and buy right after character creation.
You can also go to the arena (either in Bria's Fey or Mulrock) and test out the various SUmmon Creatures by summoning them so you can see their weaknesses and strengths in their character sheets. Given how short they last though at low levels, I never use them except if I need something to distract a foe or spring a trap (I find them pretty useless in an actual fight).
Brock, Brock, Brock. He's the man. Buff him up. Give him healing potions. Try not to draw a mob at him if it's too much for him... try and draw one or two things (possibly with the throw away summon creature) while keeping Brock back a ways.
Scrolls, wands, potions are your friends. Use them to various effect. Don't use scrolls that are too big for you if you don't want to end up polymorphed into a cow or a penguin (or worse outcomes).
Bolts of paralyzation can be fun on lower level creatures and can sometimes save the day (but wouldn't rely on them for a save). They aren't exactly cheap, but cheaper than fancier bolts.
For things like the goblins tossing magic missile, or the shaman tossing melf's acid arrow, you need to compensate if you know you are facing those foes.
For defense against magic missile, there's some crafted armors (both metal/armor crafting and cloth/tailoring) that help, but can't use them early on. Instead look at making potions of ghostly visage. However, these are expensive (60 xp, 1500 gold), but you can use on Brock which gives him some survivability and makes him immune to magic missile for the duration (I wouldn't waste that on a shelgarn's blade).
Shield (level 1 wizard spell) might be another option for yourself, but unfortunately, you can't feed potions of these to your summons or Brock (the effect will end up targeting you instead). Shield gives an instant +4 to armor baring any other deflection armor - doesn't stack with the +1 from mage armor for example, so only +3 more if mage armor going - it also makes you immune to magic missile. Unfortunately, it does not last inordinately long; though potions do come out at level 5 I believe (and aren't super expensive 10 xp, 250 gold).
For melf's, there are armors at Bagnor's in Trondor but they can be expensive when just starting out, not to mention they may not be equipable early on. Again, crafting can compensate with yellow boots or bronze armor or jewelry as some examples. Or you can use the various elemental resistance spells; lvl 1 endure elements for example should help with surviving one barrage of melf's, though heal kits at the ready is not a bad idea either.
I think early on it's necessary to avoid taking on a mob all at once until you sort out what tactics work best with a particular group. For example, for the orcs with a shaman that casts melf's acid arrow, he'll come running if you attack another in his group with a ranged attack; attacking a creature with a wand of magic missile will also draw the target your way with out any fancy footwork to get just in the creatures sight, so that's another option. Once you have his attention, you can then run back away from him and try and range him out or interrupt his casting with either well timed ranged attacks or spells of your own (can cast melf's at him first for example, which has a chance of interrupting him as he tries to cast). Can also try casting disabling spells (blindness/deafness, hold person) as another option. Area effect spells like cloud of bewilderment can mess with your summons and hired hands due to the PvP settings. Best not to use those if you have others in party with you (including summons and Brock).
Counterspelling is also an option, but as neither magic missile or acid arrow have specific counters, you'd need to setup multiple ones of these yourself (as you can counter a spell with itself) or multiple ones of either lesser dispel or dispel magic (universal counters) beforehand for those encounters. You enter counter spelling off the radial, targeting the caster you want to counter first. I believe you can do this while remaining invisible (it's not considered a hostile action).
As you get better at tactics for particular things, it's a matter of finding what gives decent enough xp and loot, that are manageable, to make a little progress. Sometimes too, I work for just loot on manageable things, to be able to implement some of those other tactics for harder things if I find myself cash poor.
Another tactic for a caster as you progress is to "convince" monsters to fight for you, or at least not fight against you - the latter approach helps take them out of a fight for a few rounds which might buy you some time to handle their friends. But I prefer disabling attacks myself if I'm attacking (much easier to survive if they aren't fighting you).
If you do want to fight a mob all at once, another option is to cast ultravision on yourself, and your friends, and then toss darkness on a mob as you begin the encounter and hope you can finish them off before the darkness ends.
Of course several fireballs at distance can wipe out foes before they get close. Just be careful not to take out yourself or your friends as your enemies approach. A tinkered gnomish fire pipe can be handy for such encounters. Besides the fireball charges, the flame arrow on it can be used in lieu of a wand of magic missile to draw a single creature your way.
Another thing to consider while young is hunting around the Eastern March or Brosna as you can buy a key at the Weary Rest or Bed and Booze respectively which will allow you to rest when you want (if in the respective inn). I appreciate that getting to the Weary Rest can be hazardous just to rest at early levels. You can also rest in the arenas at will for free (Mulrock and Bria's Fey), the latter which is off the Ornal pass so can shoot bugs and what not (just watch out for undead up on the hill) - can also venture back and forth into the slums from here which is not a bad arrangement.
So yeah, you aren't doing anything wrong necessarily, those mods are just really challenging.
I believe you can use your familiar on Difficult, but it's not really an option on Revenge because of the xp penalty on the familiar's death (talk about hardcore).
Considering multi-classing, pale master is not a bad way to go from the AC and immunities standpoint, but I find it takes longer that way because you don't get access to as many spells early on, unless you can find them to add to the book or purchase, or trade with other players. And even in the event you can fill out your spell book, your DCs and durations are that much shorter as a result which make the early levels even tougher if your plan is to attack with spells.
When playing a wizard, it is a very good idea to have decent constitution to make up for your lack of hitpoints in general. It's also good as this aids concentration. I think my wizard on Revenge has a 16 base constitution (can't check right now as it's offline), and the two I have on Difficult have 14 base (one's a surface, one's a drow).
Things tend to get better once you can cast things like improved invis and stoneskin which help for the increased damage of monsters on these mods. You are almost there at lvl 6.
I already mentioned this in the other topic you linked, but I think the defensive approach is easier/better on these servers. I never (or rarely) cast spells early on that are going to give away my invisibility. I like to take advantage of the scribe scroll feat for things like flame weapons and GMW, both of which come out reasonably high level for limited cost, which I can then use on good ole' Brock. I almost never venture out to hunt before level 4 (which I get to by running quests for Argyle). I try and do all the basic quests after that for a little extra xp.
At level six, you are looking at first, 2nd, and third level spells at best.
The set of Summon Creature spells are all modified to be more like the player's handbook - this is true for all the various Richterm's Retreat mod flavors. So the default nwn spell description does not at all match, they do not last 24hrs nor the does the creature appear as described (i.e. you don't get the badger automatically for Summon Creature I, etc.). If you do try using Summon Creature, make sure to get a book of summons so you can set what you want to get (can also see your options). You can get such a book at Malk's or Werdna's, but the cheapest is the newb store so I try and buy right after character creation.
You can also go to the arena (either in Bria's Fey or Mulrock) and test out the various SUmmon Creatures by summoning them so you can see their weaknesses and strengths in their character sheets. Given how short they last though at low levels, I never use them except if I need something to distract a foe or spring a trap (I find them pretty useless in an actual fight).
Brock, Brock, Brock. He's the man. Buff him up. Give him healing potions. Try not to draw a mob at him if it's too much for him... try and draw one or two things (possibly with the throw away summon creature) while keeping Brock back a ways.
Scrolls, wands, potions are your friends. Use them to various effect. Don't use scrolls that are too big for you if you don't want to end up polymorphed into a cow or a penguin (or worse outcomes).
Bolts of paralyzation can be fun on lower level creatures and can sometimes save the day (but wouldn't rely on them for a save). They aren't exactly cheap, but cheaper than fancier bolts.
For things like the goblins tossing magic missile, or the shaman tossing melf's acid arrow, you need to compensate if you know you are facing those foes.
For defense against magic missile, there's some crafted armors (both metal/armor crafting and cloth/tailoring) that help, but can't use them early on. Instead look at making potions of ghostly visage. However, these are expensive (60 xp, 1500 gold), but you can use on Brock which gives him some survivability and makes him immune to magic missile for the duration (I wouldn't waste that on a shelgarn's blade).
Shield (level 1 wizard spell) might be another option for yourself, but unfortunately, you can't feed potions of these to your summons or Brock (the effect will end up targeting you instead). Shield gives an instant +4 to armor baring any other deflection armor - doesn't stack with the +1 from mage armor for example, so only +3 more if mage armor going - it also makes you immune to magic missile. Unfortunately, it does not last inordinately long; though potions do come out at level 5 I believe (and aren't super expensive 10 xp, 250 gold).
For melf's, there are armors at Bagnor's in Trondor but they can be expensive when just starting out, not to mention they may not be equipable early on. Again, crafting can compensate with yellow boots or bronze armor or jewelry as some examples. Or you can use the various elemental resistance spells; lvl 1 endure elements for example should help with surviving one barrage of melf's, though heal kits at the ready is not a bad idea either.
I think early on it's necessary to avoid taking on a mob all at once until you sort out what tactics work best with a particular group. For example, for the orcs with a shaman that casts melf's acid arrow, he'll come running if you attack another in his group with a ranged attack; attacking a creature with a wand of magic missile will also draw the target your way with out any fancy footwork to get just in the creatures sight, so that's another option. Once you have his attention, you can then run back away from him and try and range him out or interrupt his casting with either well timed ranged attacks or spells of your own (can cast melf's at him first for example, which has a chance of interrupting him as he tries to cast). Can also try casting disabling spells (blindness/deafness, hold person) as another option. Area effect spells like cloud of bewilderment can mess with your summons and hired hands due to the PvP settings. Best not to use those if you have others in party with you (including summons and Brock).
Counterspelling is also an option, but as neither magic missile or acid arrow have specific counters, you'd need to setup multiple ones of these yourself (as you can counter a spell with itself) or multiple ones of either lesser dispel or dispel magic (universal counters) beforehand for those encounters. You enter counter spelling off the radial, targeting the caster you want to counter first. I believe you can do this while remaining invisible (it's not considered a hostile action).
As you get better at tactics for particular things, it's a matter of finding what gives decent enough xp and loot, that are manageable, to make a little progress. Sometimes too, I work for just loot on manageable things, to be able to implement some of those other tactics for harder things if I find myself cash poor.
Another tactic for a caster as you progress is to "convince" monsters to fight for you, or at least not fight against you - the latter approach helps take them out of a fight for a few rounds which might buy you some time to handle their friends. But I prefer disabling attacks myself if I'm attacking (much easier to survive if they aren't fighting you).
If you do want to fight a mob all at once, another option is to cast ultravision on yourself, and your friends, and then toss darkness on a mob as you begin the encounter and hope you can finish them off before the darkness ends.
Of course several fireballs at distance can wipe out foes before they get close. Just be careful not to take out yourself or your friends as your enemies approach. A tinkered gnomish fire pipe can be handy for such encounters. Besides the fireball charges, the flame arrow on it can be used in lieu of a wand of magic missile to draw a single creature your way.
Another thing to consider while young is hunting around the Eastern March or Brosna as you can buy a key at the Weary Rest or Bed and Booze respectively which will allow you to rest when you want (if in the respective inn). I appreciate that getting to the Weary Rest can be hazardous just to rest at early levels. You can also rest in the arenas at will for free (Mulrock and Bria's Fey), the latter which is off the Ornal pass so can shoot bugs and what not (just watch out for undead up on the hill) - can also venture back and forth into the slums from here which is not a bad arrangement.
Re: How to survive as a wiz in Nordock?
Thanks foo. I didn't know bout the area and unlimited rest (or the inn either). I assume it's the same in Revenge? As soon as it's back up, I'll give it a try. Pale master has been a good choice, making it possible to hunt legendary animals at this rather low level for Revenge.
//Maria
//Maria
